P-38 vs Zero a6m-zero. Accordling to Ludwig Bölkow as quoted in the above book, the Me 109K had a reduced ground angle to improve handling, indicated as 12 degrees in one drawing and as 11.9 degrees in another. Many times during the war saw Bf109s go up against Spitfires from the late days of the Battle of France, the Channel War period, and the Battle of Britain through to the end of 1945. Your email address will not be published. I'm not complaining - I play 109s a lot and never play Spitfires. I have written THE DECISIVE DUEL as a “dual biography” of the British Supermarine Spitfire … F-35 Lightning II vs Chengdu J-10; http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~gmturner/aircraft/spitfire_xii/spitfire_xii.htm, http://thegreatcanadianmodelbuildersweb … 9-k-4.html. This is a question that often comes up in discussions on airpower in World War II: how did the two iconic fighters of the War—The British Supermarine Spitfire and the German Messerschmitt Bf 109—compare? http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/i … 23107.html, G-14 had enlarged rudder pedals and unbalanced elevators for better dive pulkllout. Seems like it came down to several things. They started in earnest in early 1943 in the Wiener Neustadt works. For their homebuilt HA-1109 they therefore used French-made Hispano-Suiza 12Z, but soon a need for more power (and less torque) was evident. This disparity is clearly visible when you look at the numbers. http://www.thefullwiki.org/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin_powered_variants). Now there was 1 experimental Spit that hit 600 mph in a dive, it was a writ off afterwards, wings bent fuselage wrecked. The Spitfires were powerless. Tony Holmes describes the Battle of Britain, the clash between the Spitfire I/II and the Bf 109E - detailing not only the key elements of both aircraft types - the airframe, engine, armament and flying characteristics, but also the pilots' training and tactics accompanied … Try the NSFW 10 best looking American airplanes, or the same but for Canadians. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The large paddle-bladed propeller caused a huge amount of torque, making the aircraft extremely difficult to handle on take-off and landing. G-10 elevator travel different than G-6, this means more bang for the buck when one pulls on the stick. Let’s take it from the beginning: Is your argument that the increased power was absorbed better by the Bf 109 than by the Spitfire, and that the fact that earlier mark Spitfires had better handling characteristics than late-mark ones made them superior fighters? The Spitfire’s bubble canopy and large mirrors offered excellent views and better situational awareness to the pilot. It was a short burst, maybe 10 shells from each cannon, but I saw the bomber explode & begin to burn. Spitfire Mk. XI: Mach .89 in dive. Bf-109 vs P-38 a6m-zero. Following this, you have posted ten additional comments on this thread. Iscriviti a Prime Ciao, Accedi Account e liste Accedi Account e liste Resi e ordini Iscriviti a Prime Carrello. Bf-109 vs P-38 a6m-zero. Bf 109 vs Spitfire. In the meantime, the Bf 109 had progressed from the pre-war Bf 109A ‘Anton’ with its 493 kW Jumo 210D to the Bf 109K-4 ‘Kurfürst’ featuring a Daimler-Benz DB 605DC with a boosted output of 1470 kW. May 31, 2013 Military Aviation, Military History. As the Bf 109’s received more powerful engines and armament, it got heavier, which led to increased wing loading and higher landing speeds. “I preferred the 109F because it flew well at any altitude, was fast as most . It is well known by now that a Bf 109 taking off from Northern France had about 10 minutes of flying time over London, not nearly enough to battle it out with RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes. CAPTCHA Code * Recent Posts. What isn’t so well known is that this was when the planes undertook independent fighter sweeps. About The Decisive Duel: Spitfire vs 109. You clearly seem interested and well-read in WWII aviation, which is nice to see. Prev; 1; 2; Next; Page 1 of 2 . Delays in transferring knowledge and drawings to various subcontractors slowed down production. G-2 British tested at 467 mph in dive, here we have 560 mph TAS from tall wood tail Roland. In the early part of the war, it could be argued that the Bf 109 (E and F variants) held the upper hand over the Spitfire Mk 1A/B and Mk V. But as the war wore on, the Spitfire’s inherently more advanced design, as well as the infusion of US technology (100-octane fuel, Browning machine guns, TR.5043 VHF radios, and so on) gave it a clear advantage over the simpler and lighter Bf 109 that persisted right up to the end. It was also asserted that this was an interim requirement. An interesting point is that by the time the F.24 was delivered in 1948, the F-86 Sabre was already flying. 24 and the carrier-based F.Mk 47 were the all-out finest fighters, as the development of the Messerschmitt had (almost) ended by that time. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. This if anything shows the fact that RAF still valued the fighter in its later versions. Whatever happened to the Westland WS-70 Blackhawk? 37 Bf 109s were destroyed this day by an air raid of … The RLM was able to have it mass-manufactured without much of a hassle. These were easy enough to concentrate in the nose. Power: 2,000 HP. Spitfire vs Bf 109 and F-14 vs Su-27: the difference is always the pilot. The oil pan was made from roughly 1 quarter inch steel, armored in other words, to protect against ground fire. In the mood for something more offensive? The Bf109F also spearheaded the German invasion of the Soviet Union. Who has the edge. Indeed, the powerful Merlin 61 and four-bladed propeller allowed it to outrun, out-turn, and out-climb the Bf-109G. In Battle of Bodenplatte we get the fall of 1944 through early 1945 conflict and together we have a couple of star players from both sides. Both planes evolved continuously during their long careers, and any attempt at an answer will have to include a reference to the timeframe in question. i am a huge 109 fan and by far my favorite plane of the second world war. They used stuff from American & German fighters, laminar flow wing, & raised rudder pedals & angled seat like ME 109 & chains & cable replaced from stick to ailerons like FW 190, these plane’s didn’t work out, but the attempt was made. Was either machine demonstrably better? Andererseits erleichterte die geblasene Haube der Spitfire die Luftraumbeobachtung ungemein. The RAF could see that the Luftwaffe were stepping down their incursions into British airspace, and went on to the offensive. Best of luck. Its elliptical wing proved to be difficult to fabricate. Fu una lotta che doveva durare cinque anni, estendendosi ai campi di battaglia These days historians always go by the word of retired personnel who always claim that Spitfires are capable of 450mph in a dive. It is easy to overlook exactly how huge these improvements were. The Spitfire Mk I that went to war in 1939 featured a Merlin II, giving it 775 kW of power for a top speed of 580 km/h. – Memo to Air Marshal Sholto Douglas, AOC-in-C Fighter Command, from the Senior Staff Air Officer, April 1941. Did you mean “two”? One query – what were the “certain conditions” that restricted pilots being able to exert maximum force to the controls in the Bf-109? – Air Vice Marshal Trafford Leigh-Mallory, September 1941. Czechoslovakia was eager for any influx of dollars it could find, and was willing to part with a number of S-199’s. According to Radinger/Otto, “Me 109”, Bölkow’s design office for that consisted of 140 heads, including the original Me 109 chief designer Richard Bauer, 10 experienced Me 109 design engineers, and the Me 109 series production office. In an interesting new spinoff of its New Vanguard series, Osprey Publishing has launched “Duel,” a … The Bf 109 would require cannon armament to damage metal airframes. The larger, structurally stronger Spitfire IX suffered no such problems. The first BF 109 prototype flew in September 1935, ironically powered by a … SPITFIRE Vs 109 By David Isby Published by Little, Brown in London Available now from Amazon The British Supermarine Spitfire and the German Messerschmitt Bf 109 shaped the course of the Second World War. The Kurfürst was far from the finest, with most pilots (and historians) usually ranking the Friedrich as the most well-balanced of the lot. The Bf-109 could out-turn the Spitfire in some circumstances, but you needed an expert at the stick to do it. Both fighters were pressed into fighti… The Aces Talk page 220.. "Spitfire Vs BF-109 Due Leggende a Confronto" (Nel 1940, due aerei combatterono ad oltranza sulla Gran Bretagna. XIV for the first time Johnnie Johnson said that it was a nice and fast aeroplane”). The Bf 109 also suffered from handling challenges, both in the air as well as on the ground. 33° +/-3° up and 34° +/-3° down, and Almost one in five 109s produced were written off in landing accidents, with an associated loss of pilots. The Luftwaffe was within about two to three weeks of destroying the RAF when Hitler decided to start bombing London instead of concentrating on the RAF bases. In der Spitfire saß er etwas weiter hinten über dem Flügel als in der Bf 109. In the meantime, several alternatives were trialled. For both Britain and Germany, they […] 5:19. I opened with the 20’s at 500 yards. Spitfire Vs Bf 109 (troppo vecchio per rispondere) Sergio Bugger 2003-10-14 08:29:40 UTC. “Spitfires tasked to carry out offensive fighter sweeps and raids over Northern France in 1941 faced the same issue. Spitfire vs Bf 109 book. “Japanese knowhow”, “German Engineering”. Der starke Haubenrahmen der Messerschmitt war in dieser Hinsicht nachteilig. “At the end of the war, work on a modified version (referred to by one source as the MK 108A or MK 108 n A – presumably standing for neuer Art or new type) was achieving around 900 rpm on test, but was too late to see service.” (p. 167 f). The Bf 109C featured a redesigned wing to accommodate two 7.92 mm machine guns, with ammunition boxes stored in the fuselage. I’m no aeronautical engineer – this was comprehensive (to my mind) and easy to understand. While the Bf 109 began with original design followed with Bf 109E, Bf 109 K-4, Bf 109 K, Bf 109 F/G and Bf 109 G-6/R6. However the spitfire by the end of the war were far superior to the bf-109’s. Well that was because most people never got the chance to find out. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm. This was chiefly because its Rolls Royce Merlin engine had a higher critical altitude (the altitude at which the supercharger is operating at full capacity, and beyond which engine power rapidly decreases) than the Messerschmitt’s Daimler-Benz DB 601. Im Ge… The man behind the machine, Wilhelm Emil Messerschmitt, was born on June 26, 1898, in Frankfurt-am-Main, the son of a wine merchant. The Messerschmitt Spitfire Hunt at the 2018 Hangar10 Fly In. The reason Fighter Command didn’t suffer very heavy losses was that the Luftwaffe was by then fighting over Russia. later 109’s also had a 3 & 1/2 inch thick windscreen, P-51 & Spit I think retained thin ones. So we shall mostly stick to the variants that were in service in this timeframe: the Spitfire 1A/B and Spitfire V; the Bf 109E and F. “…the Me 109F has a slightly superior performance to the Spitfire V”. In terms of ease of operation, there were advantages and shortcomings to both designs. This book discusses the combat between these two fighters. The belt that fed rounds to the weapon would frequently jam. The solution arrived in the form of Seafury after the war. The reason Fighter Command didn’t suffer very heavy losses was that the Luftwaffe was by then fighting over Russia. Spitfire is the most beautiful aircraft ever made. There was only one Wing of three Spitfire XIV Squadrons and the rest were equipped with Spitfire IXs or Spit XVIs (Spit IXs with Rolls-Royce engines built by Packard in the U.S.A.). This did not always work. Il Messerschmitt Bf 109, fu un aereo da caccia monomotore, monoplano ad ala bassa progettato negli anni trenta dall'ing. Comparing the Messerschmitt Bf 109 Single-Seat, Single-Engine Fighter Aircraft against the North American P-51 Mustang Single-Seat, Single-Engine Fighter / Fighter-Bomber Aircraft. Cancel Reply. Integrating 20mm cannon was also a great challenge. The Bf 109E had heavier armament, and a slightly higher top speed, but the thin wing discouraged pilots from taking the aircraft ‘to the limit’ in dogfights, as overstressing the wings could have fatal consequences. An excellent and comprehensive comparison. Wrong, Spitfire could turn inside a 109 Pilots were equal in the Battle of Britain era pretty much true 109 had shit range, Spitfires didn't need long range,they had enough to burn up their ammo per sortie. Share Followers 4. The Fashion Versus Aircraft Camo is also a real cracker. Beaumont said Lall Spits dangerous past 4-450 mph, Versuchs-Bericht Nr 109 05 E 43 – Date 15.4.43 ( Log Out /  The engine also utilised fuel-injection technology, which allowed the aircraft to pitch forward into a dive; the Merlin’s carburettor would stall the engine if this were attempted in a Spitfire. 1) Quale era il vero nome (sigla) del Supermarine "Spitfire"? Its firepower was only about half of what the Spitfire IX carried: two nose-mounted 7.92mm machine guns in the G-1 variant (upgraded to 13mm guns in the G-5) and one 20mm cannon firing through the propeller hub. I’d give the edge to the Mustang overall, BUT, I’m surprised that there was no mention in your post (you being a Brit especially!) With the steady increase in weight, the Bf-109G’s handling qualities suffered. I was mostly around or above 20,000 feet and led me to the conclusion that the Spitfire was slightly superior both in speed and rate of climb, that is was a more 'slippery' or lower drag aeroplane, and that it was outstandingly better in turning circle. Fausto Fillipi excerpt from Me and the Gustav article. Also please don't come on here saying AMERICA/ BRITAIN IS BEST BLARGHHHH SPITFIRE. This original German test document refers to dive tests of 109s with the tall tail. Browse more videos. The German pilots who test flew it loved it I guess. Leave A Reply. Accommodating a more powerful engine, increased armament, new radios, and armour plate within the Bf-109G’s tiny airframe was a major challenge. There were two major problems with the landing gear design that caused serious losses of Bf 109s on take-off and landing. Yet another example would be automatic leading-edge slats that prevented the Bf 109 from going into a stall at low speeds or in high-G turns. The Bf109G-14 was not the best Bf109 to be produced but it was available in numbers and that story is true also for the Spitfire LF.IXe at this point in the conflict. Der Flügel schränkte seinen Blickwinkel nach vorn unten stärker ein als bei dem deutschen Jäger. The German the aviation ministry (RLM) specified two rifle-calibre (7.92 mm) machine-guns that the biplanes of the mid-30s carried. Now, these one fact/one comment snippets are unfortunately not that useful, and are swamping the page. Some are familiar from books and movies or have become legends. Those interested in the Cold Way should read A pilot’s guide to flying and fighting in the Lightning. Now, I highly value open discussion, and discussion include people voicing different opinions. The Messerschmitt Bf 109 is a German World War II fighter aircraft that was, along with the Focke-Wulf Fw 190, the backbone of the Luftwaffe's fighter force. had a superior rate of climb and could dive very well. http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/art … s/#109hard. The few fighters left to defend the western front seldom rose up to meet the RAF’s challenges.

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