It turns out there is often a gap in productivity between that of NP/PA providers and physicians. Midlevels- do you wish you had gone to med school? Also, if you get into a good medical school and do well there you should be able to get a residency position within a reasonable radius of a major city. If you know you want to be an MD, then I would regard it as a waste of time, energy, and money to get your NP. So if you go direct to MD, you've got pre-reqs and then med school somewhere. This is not an insurmountable task, but it is an obstacle. If you're not totally sure you want to be an MD, then starting out as an NP and practicing for a few years isn't a terrible way to go and should help you make up your mind. It's not about the freedom or scope of practice. Anything I sense as "bashing" the other profession will only sway me closer to the opposite side, as I only appreciate mature and well-thought-out insight. Most of these cases have physics in involvement at some level. Is his job going to be where your med school / residency is? The findings all state "No difference favoring either APRN or physician care" but the strength of the evidence was either insufficient, low, or low-to-medium. Edit: My SO makes enough money for us to live off. They are now required by reddit's admins to use NP links when posting links of reddit on reddit. Nurse Practitioner VS Medical Doctor ( MD, DO) My whole life I've always wanted to be an MD, and lately I've been questioning it and thinking about becoming an NP. It is designed to highlight the differences between a medical doctor and midlevels in areas including training, research, outcomes, and lobbying. Thanks. ._2YJDRz5rCYQfu8YdgB_neb{overflow:hidden;position:relative}._2YJDRz5rCYQfu8YdgB_neb:before{background-image:url(https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/img/reddit_pattern.png);content:"";filter:var(--newCommunityTheme-invertFilter);height:100%;position:absolute;width:100%}._37WD6iicVS6vGN0RomNTwh{padding:0 12px 12px;position:relative} Cost: $200,000 to get through your pre-reqs and med school give or take. You asked for a mid-level's input. Besides the financial aspect, the following 7 points will make your decision of PA vs. MD easy. And then I come home. The funny (albeit sad) thing is derpy NPs will use this as their evidence that there is "no difference" in care. Dr. Heidi Schmidt is one of thousands of doctors who failed to match to a residency. I think this post hits home the importance of personality and circumstances when making the decision between MD/DO and the other allied health professions (AHPs). Traditionally, DO residencies were exclusive to DOs but were the minority. Concern Re: Types of Practitioners NP Schools Produce. This website link has been reported to AANP. The long hours and lifestyles of some MD specialties aren't easy, but it doesn't mean that they aren't worth it. The gpa is attained by almost everyone who's ever done the program so the mcat is all you really have to worry about. Nurses should be required to do at least 10 years as an RN before being allowed to be an NP. Save two years and the money. nurses who have always dreamed of becoming a medical doctor My SO has a job that requires a large city. Mundinger MO, Kane RL, Lenz ER, et al. I think most people with kids will tell you its never convenient. I'm not sure enough that I want to be an MD to stake everything on it right at this point. This sub is intended as a repository of sources and a place of discussion regarding INDEPENDENT midlevel (NP/PA) practice. I've been lurking on this sub for a while. I'm really excited to attend, and learn more about medicine. You need to think about not just was will make you happy, but also which career choice will fulfill you. My NP program is also three years. It's intended use is to prevent brigrading in subreddits known for brigrading ie r/subredditdrama r/shitredditsays r/shitstatistssay etc.. Better to just spend the time working as an RN while you finish your med school prereqs. https://www.aanp.org/advocacy/advocacy-resource/position-statements/quality-of-nurse-practitioner-practice. I'd say make sure you're financially good before applying, and go for it. If you really want to go to med school it is a waste of your time. ._3gbb_EMFXxTYrxDZ2kusIp{margin-bottom:24px;text-transform:uppercase;width:100%}._3gbb_EMFXxTYrxDZ2kusIp:last-child{margin-bottom:10px} I've wanted to be a midlevel for the last three or four years. Addendum: If you go for MD/DO and you decide it is not for you, you will always have your BSN and always have NP school as an option. Temple university has a post bacc program that gives you all the prereqs and mcat tutoring in 15 months. It's about the knowledge, professional development, and honestly not having to prove myself as a provider. The economics of becoming an MD hardly make sense anymore given the uncertainty of reimbursement. While bad doctors certainly exist, most are equipped with the knowledge and skill to get it right a substantial amount of the time. We don't have kids. Not for me. It's a hobby in addition to a career and that's a plus. It's not ideal to have to do it yourself, but a lot of people do. As a result, I've seen what attending physicians do, and what midlevels do, and the former is where I want to be. That's the thing. Cookies help us deliver our Services. My advice? Definitely not with my family. It's entirely possible that I'd be happy with being an NP. Each one of these studies is posted on the official AANP website. NP / PA school barely scratches the surface of what you're capable of. Even mistaken by a Pediatric Attending as an intern for over two weeks because, well, it was July, and the new interns were shy, and I was apparently the only one who knew how to manage Bilis and run rounds. I'm in my last semester of an accelerated BSN program, and I've been spending a ton more time in the hospital. Agree 100%. Anyway, if you're the kind of person who it will eat alive to not be calling all the shots, and that's the most important thing to you, not family or hobbies or whatever, then go for it. To keep it simple, the student will not have to attend a college out of town. I have had many classmates get married, have kids, and also deal with the death of family members and friends. Instead, they can remain in their current location, while they complete their first two years of the program. That's 9 years of time (2 for prereqs + MCAT and interviewing, 4 for med school, and 3 for pediatric residency). My undergraduate GPA unfortunately was 3.1 due to immaturity and laziness. The range of the gap varies wildly – I just got off the phone with a group leader who has observed a 50 percent difference to a smaller gap of perhaps 10 percent. All questions related to NP admissions, brick and mortar vs. online programs, and direct entry NP programs along with any posts related to NP school admissions should be posted in the weekly prospective NP thread. NP's pretty damn good. There's a lot of things to consider. Two kids I probably would've put off if I'd gone to med school. I wouldn't try to do both. PA’s are not MD’s and personally I think the PA profession is joke. Currently, my plan is to attend NP school, get my masters (1.5-2 years), then practice while taking pre-requisites for med school and the MCAT. I mean, I could have, right? Increasing hours, declining pay, autonomy and respect by society and the government? MD residencies, considered to be more respected and robust, dominated and accepted both MDs and DOs (if they took the MD licensing exams). While I do not think it is unrealistic to practice as an RN and complete med school pre-reqs as a full time student, I do think it is unrealistic to practice as an NP and do the same. She's now heading to nursing school, to become a nurse practitioner. Do not underestimate what debt like that will do to you at this stage of a career so close to the one you want. You'll be cash positive in the long run and NP won't add much. In medicine, we don't make decisions based on low quality or insufficient evidence. I want to work in a big hospital with good acute pediatrics department. A quick “cheating” way to wear a white coat and act like a doctor. Their education is similar to an MD’s, with special training in muscle and skeletal issues, and their numbers have been growing. The "NP" stands for "No Participation". You'll probably read and be told you should work a year or 2 as an NP before applying. Your husband might have to drive a little farther than he'd like to. Good luck! None of these studies are even publish worthy. I am a fellowship-trained surgeon. In addition to the degree needed to become a registered nurse, NPs also get master's or doctoral degrees. I plan on working full time as an RN while attending NP school. It is designed to highlight the differences between a medical doctor and midlevels in areas including training, research, outcomes, and lobbying. Let me know if I'm wrong) 2) Hours: MD → You have all seen my graph, so you know how I got to 14,000 hours You will save time and money. It’s the VA. Although few Registered Nurses (RN) choose the path of medical doctor (MD), those who do can find a rewarding and lucrative career at the head of the healthcare food chain. We just describe our comfort level that our failed attempt to discover a significant difference is unlikely due to chance. Literally no one lol. Users are also encouraged to check out r/preNP! It's going to be a decade that is all consuming. Physicians and midlevels alike, I'd like your advice on this. Blogs > Rockstar Practice VA Goes Too Far on NP Independence — Doctors' morale suffers, and patient care may follow suit. And for what? I love medicine. It would be better for you to work as an RN instead of doing NP school. I have a total of five years experience in medical-surgical, pediatric and emergency nursing. NP to MD bridge programs are great for those who have a family at home because they are designed with family in mind. Honestly, I wasn't happy as an NP, I knew what I didn't know and it bugged me. To two great kids and a happy wife. Good luck. When you know in your heart that something is meant to be, you won't be fulfilled until you achieve it. Oh no, send anything dangerous to the hospital where physician hospitalist and subspecialists discharge your poorly managed patient back to you until disaster number 2, This sub is intended as a repository of sources and a place of discussion regarding INDEPENDENT midlevel (NP/PA) practice. I'm a PA. And do I sometimes wish I'd just bit the bullet and gone to medical school? The real hit, though, will be the debt. I'm echoing the same sentiment as the other posters so far. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. And I love them. Just go for the prereqs. At the end of the day, the MD/DO will have the most training in the room and will be necessary to make the proper decisions that guide patient care. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I was just accepted in to a Nurse Practitioner program for Acute Pediatrics. NP to MD Bridge Programs Currently, there are no schools in the U.S. that allow nurse practitioners to "bridge" by using work hours to credit towards medical school training… You will get better experience and more support as an RN. I am almost two years out now, working in a very busy ED on the weekends (where I learn something everyday). NP and MD are two separate career tracks. Go rural with the NP. That thought does sneak into my head from time to time. I have now completed the prereqs, and am studying for the MCAT. If you are unable to really practice as an NP, the degree and licensure will basically be for nothing. Press J to jump to the feed. Here's a thought. Founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho, MD, KevinMD.com is the web’s leading platform where physicians, advanced practitioners, nurses, medical students, and … NP to MD here. I'm planning on saving 90% of my take home salary for the next four years to use only for school (including NP and pre-reqs)- two as an RN and two as an NP, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. No surgeon being called in at 2 AM is "happy" about it, but hopefully these large sacrifices made for their fellow man allows them to lead a more fulfilling life. by Rebekah Bernard MD January 16, 2020 /r/medicine is a virtual lounge for physicians and other medical professionals from around the world to talk about the latest advances, controversies, ask questions of each other, have a laugh, or share a difficult moment. However, I don't think it'll be enough for me. I'm going to give it another two years and see. Let's say that working pays off your prereqs AND interview costs: you can't work through med school. You don't think it would aid in the application process? However, if you go for NP and decide it is not for you, you may no longer have the opportunity to be an MD/DO. I've never felt like this before, and it's all because I followed my dreams, as corny as it sounds. I don't know much about the nursing field, so I'd love any advise from NP's or MD/DO's, or anyone in the field. But don't let other people determine what YOU will be. The cost is expensive, but I wouldn't get caught up in the apocalyptic views about medicine that are popularized on reddit and in the media. I've also become a bit disillusioned with NP school (I'm going to a major state university with an excellent NP program- no diploma mills for me), and the type of practitioners that it tends to produce. Just get the prereqs done and work as a nurse. Not in this day and age and political climate. Also, whether you are an MD/DO or an NP commenting on this matter, I ask you to please demonstrate your pros/cons in a constructive and respectful way. I'm not looking for shortcuts, and I know that I would have to pretty much re-learn everything I've learned in nursing school, practice, and NP school. Perhaps you should consider deferring your acceptance to your NP program for a year, and take that year to further explore the "doctor" side of medicine (shadowing, etc). NP and MD are two separate career tracks. I'm actually coming from the same place; I went into an accelerated nursing school thinking I wanted to be an NP, but realize now I'd rather learn medicine. Every single day of medschool has been a joy, even when it's tough. NP → NCLEX-RN, relevant NP board exam (x1) (This is a minimum since many take more to get more letters at the end of their name. Background for my story: I am a 26 year old registered nurse about to graduate from a brick and mortar family nurse practitioner program with a 3.91 GPA. Maybe take a couple of the prerequisites in case you decide to go forward with it. Like a doctor, a nurse practitioner can: Diagnose and treat acute conditions; I love differentials, and pharmacology and anatomy and science. And sometimes, yeah, I think, could I have? Insisting that just because a MD/DO program requires 20,000 clinical hours while an NP/DNP program only requires 1,000 means it is inferior and dangerous to patients is an unfair and unprofessional argument, completely ignoring the other 17,000 hours spent at the bedside (not just there on rounds for 10 minutes at a time). Too much to give them up or put them aside for nearly a decade. Truthfully, this was more of an issue before 2020 when DO and MD residency accrediting bodies decided to merge. I do not know if there is a standardized exam for masters and I couldn't find one on Google. Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now. Why or why not? I really respect this community, and I'd like to hear some external opinions. If you have to go out of state or private, it's $200-300k without heavy parental support. I would imagine something along those lines would come up as an interview question. The kids/family think is something I am considering. Use proper terminology. But my kids and musicology and chess and good food and the nba and guitar and piano and vinyl collecting and reading and general biology and reddit are my hobbies. Something to think about. And a big one. Primary care outcomes in patients treated by nurse practitioners or physicians: a randomized trial. Couple of points to touch on things you've said so far: Your husband will be done with his PhD in 3 years, then has to move to a city with support for a good physics-centered job.As an MD / DO, you don't really get to choose where you go. A nurse practitioner is a registered nurse with advanced training and education. Here's my 2 cents- skip the NP. I know of a PA who is in the middle of such a program, seems to be doing well and apparently the program is accredited in the US. Cum laude undergrad from a top 15 university. I wouldn't really announce at your RN job that you plan on doing medical school, though, because you'll be at a point where a lot of resources are being put into your orientation and training. NP’s are also turning into jokes with RN’s barely certified before jumping on a NP bridge program. I am entering my senior year of my BSN program and will be applying to Post-Bacc Pre-Med programs starting this August (pre-reqs + MCAT prep). Just don't be the NP you're afraid you'll be trained to be, if that's your primary concern. They already do. The majority people do not want to balance the rigors of medical school and residency with having a family, but it is important to keep in mind that medical school (or any other professional program) does not occur in a vacuum. Fair point. They are quite literally too stupid to understand that these studies are not a good look for their bastard profession. /*# sourceMappingURL=https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/chunkCSS/TopicLinksContainer.361933014be843c79476.css.map*/._2ppRhKEnnVueVHY_G-Ursy{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin:22px 0 0;min-height:200px;overflow:hidden;position:relative}._2KLA5wMaJBHg0K2z1q0ci_{margin:0 -7px -8px}._1zdLtEEpuWI_Pnujn1lMF2{bottom:0;position:absolute;right:52px}._3s18OZ_KPHs2Ei416c7Q1l{margin:0 0 22px;position:relative}.LJjFa8EhquYX8xsTnb9n-{filter:grayscale(40%);position:absolute;top:11px}._2Zjw1QfT_iMHH7rfaGsfBs{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;background:linear-gradient(180deg,rgba(0,121,211,.24),rgba(0,121,211,.12));border-radius:50%;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;height:25px;-ms-flex-pack:center;justify-content:center;margin:0 auto;width:25px}._2gaJVJ6_j7vwKV945EABN9{background-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button);border-radius:50%;height:15px;width:15px;z-index:1} If you want to be an NP, be an NP (or PA, whose model more closely matches that of an MD), if you want to be an MD, just be an MD. Be an MD. Life happens around you, whether you want it to or not. MIDLEVEL is a word used by health care administrators to describe revenue generators who are somewhere halfway between a nurse and a doctor (I think). /*# sourceMappingURL=https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/chunkCSS/ReredditLink.f7b66a91705891e84a09.css.map*/ to move, most likely out of state, as there are no physicist jobs in the city where we live (it's mostly an overgrown college town). Regularly praised by Attendings during rotations. I could hardly be bothered to give them up for PA school, let alone medical school plus residency. Eventually I worked my way to medical school and am now finishing up my second year. It's just school for school's sake at that point. Jan 5 2000;283(1):59-68. Not do we conflate “no difference” as definitive truth of equal outcomes. If you know you want to be an MD, then I would regard it as a waste of time, energy, and money to get your NP. The three-year MD pathway is overseen by program director Joan Cangiarella, MD, Associate Dean for Education, Faculty, and Academic Affairs. For more information about the three-year MD admissions process, email admissions@nyulangone.org, or call 212-263-5290. Honestly, save yourself the 2 years and just go straight for med school. Learn more about our three-year MD degree pathway by viewing our webinar. I am 100% serious about this: please consider it. However, in order to attend medical school I'd have to re-take all my pre-requisites and take the MCAT. I am doing BSN to MD/DO. Especially when I see the inevitable missed diagnosis or shoddy care someone else has provided, because that does happen, and you sometimes have to bite your tongue, although the autonomy I'm provided means it isn't often for me. Because who would sign a consent form saying “i dont want a doctor involved in my care”? It takes on an average at least 15 years (after high school) of head in the sand (books) to complete fellowship and reach the … On the AANP website: https://www.aanp.org/advocacy/advocacy-resource/position-statements/quality-of-nurse-practitioner-practice, https://www.hsrd.research.va.gov/publications/esp/ap-nurses.pdf. In urban areas, yes, NPs are very different from doctors. Say NURSE PRACTITIONER, MIDWIFE, PHYSICIAN. Currently, my plan is to attend NP school, get my masters (1.5-2 years), then practice while taking pre-requisites for med school and the MCAT. If you must use a collective term, say HEALTH PROFESSIONALS. Since when have they done evidence-based anything? Guaranteed acceptance to their med school if you get a 3.5 gpa and a 30 mcat in their program. Medical school is tough, but to remain sane one has to devote time outside of work toward their personal lives. Contact Us. You would be an employee of Gunderson, which is based in La Crosse, WI, and is famous for taking fantastic care of their providers. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If you're not totally sure you want to be an MD, then starting out as an NP and practicing for a few years isn't a terrible way to go and should help you make up your mind. The only problem with that is the timing issue. If you go in-state, you're looking at about $120,000. This time next year, you'll be better equipped to choose between the two fields, and no risk of throwing away the NP opportunity you have (assuming, of course, that your program will let you defer.). Many if not all had these NPs under physician supervision as well. I know the time requirement is an issue, but does this sound like a good plan? Nurse Practitioner vs Doctor (Physician) October 26, 2020 ... Side-by-Side Comparison: NP vs Physician (MD or DO) Below is a side-by-side comparison of doctors and NPs, including the typical timeline to practice, responsibilities, education, … "Noctor" refers to NPs and PAs who pretend to be doctors, Press J to jump to the feed. This is a highly moderated subreddit. kitty, Have not heard of one in the US but there are 2 that I have heard of in the Caribean that are specific to PA's or NP's becoming MD's. It's a personal choice. But it does come to mind. Currently, my SO is getting a PhD in physics, to be completed in three years. And I can't say that it'd be at all worth it to do med school. BSN to MD/DO is already a difficult route, don't make it harder on yourself. All right. Mortality for PCP? JAMA. If not? ___________________________________________ Not for a long, long time. I really appreciate the response, and it's exactly what I was looking for. And not with the fact that medicine is not my life. Very few studies have looked at independently practicing nurses. I don't want kids now, but I'd like them in 5-8 years. Sometimes, I say HEALERS. After that time, we have._2JU2WQDzn5pAlpxqChbxr7{height:16px;margin-right:8px;width:16px}._3E45je-29yDjfFqFcLCXyH{margin-top:16px}._13YtS_rCnVZG1ns2xaCalg{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:18px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex}._1m5fPZN4q3vKVg9SgU43u2{margin-top:12px}._17A-IdW3j1_fI_pN-8tMV-{display:inline-block;margin-bottom:8px;margin-right:5px}._5MIPBF8A9vXwwXFumpGqY{border-radius:20px;font-size:12px;font-weight:500;letter-spacing:0;line-height:16px;padding:3px 10px;text-transform:none}._5MIPBF8A9vXwwXFumpGqY:focus{outline:unset} The field of nursing can be used as a stepping stone to the next level of the care delivery model. PA applying to MD this cycle with 1 kid. Seems like a slam dunk for you. In today’s episode, Ryan talks with Dr. Mark Kauffman, the Assistant Dean of Graduate Studies at Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine (LECOM), who was previously a PA. But the more rural you go, the fewer doctors there are and the more responsibility you take on. A wife I might have lost because she could hardly handle the rigors of a PA school where I didn't even have to travel for rotations, let alone med school and residency. If you are a PO, NP, DO, or MD, or if you soon will finish school or residency, I invite you to consider my invitation. Please read the rules carefully before posting or commenting. The anecdotal evidence should only point to the fact that we are all human, and people make mistakes.

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