Of course, it is unimportant if he and I agree, but I’m encouraged that we both studied the scriptures separately and came to many of the same conclusions regarding spiritual authority. Hebrews 13:17 states " Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Paul also understood that his authority rested on the trustworthiness of his own godly character and his willingness to serve and to suffer for Christ. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Unfortunately, this mistranslation of “pethio” to “obey” and “submit” has spread to some new Bible transations such as the NKJV, NASB, and ESV. This is someone who listens to reason and then implements the truth in his life. When God promised to preserve his Word…did he really mean that he would only preserve it on 2,000 year old parchment and papyrus in ancient forms of Greek and Aramaic?? We’re about to excavate a much-misunderstood Bible verse. Latins dwelling in the place whence Hebrews was dispatched. The reason for submitting to such men is realizing that they are helping you. 4:1-2). The text does not mention the name of its author, but was traditionally attributed to Paul the Apostle.However, doubt on Pauline authorship in the Roman Church is reported by Eusebius. Did the Evangelical Inner Circle in the Church of England Cover up the Alleged Abuses of Jonathan Fletcher? He didn’t want them to lose hope in the midst of persecution. Cross references. "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment" (James 3:1). I recommend this book to anyone. I’ll have to check out that book. 10 We have an altar from which the priests in the Tabernacle # 13:10 Or tent. ( B) as those who must give an account. The author wanted the Jewish Christians to continue in the Christian faith. 3. give an account. I am in a Hermeneutics course at Southwestern Baptist Theological and this breakdown was useful. Hebrews 13:17 (NKJV) Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. It defies common sense. The New Testament book of Hebrews was originally written in Greek. All leaders in the church, but most especially the elders, are not acting for their own personal benefit. Was There Cover-up in the Ministry? Thank you. "Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock" (I Peter 5:2-3). As someone who writes against spiritual abuse, I try to remain open to feedback from any source and to learn what I can from every comment. I confess that I would be more open to learning from your comment if it didn’t make so many assumptions about who I am and who my readers are. The Greek word translated as "obey" is peitho, which means to be convinced or persuaded. By looking at your blog, I understand that you have been wounded in the past by a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing. Jon, I picked up a copy of Viola’s “Re-Imagining the Church” and it is excellent. Why do Baptist always want to go to the Greek to understand the Bible? The reason being, I don’t trust my skills in using it, and for those who do, sometimes I even question theirs. If a leader is filled with grief about losing a soul he has striven to save, what does that say for the soul lost? I do see a difference in scripture between the manner of submitting to civil authorities and to church authorities. I would say that I am merely a student of the Bible. The elders are to give an account regarding how they have lead and protected the congregation. Instead of all this ancient Greek nonsense, which Baptists seem to have a fixation on, I suggest that every Christian layperson do this: 1. This interpretation is due to a mistranslation of the text. In 10:8 he boasts about his authority to build up, not to tear down, but even then he doesn’t want to terrify or intimidate the Corinthians with his letters (2 Cor. They are trying to get as many as they can to heaven. God. (Hebrews 13:17 ESV) The structure of this verse is as follows: Command – (obey… and submit) Obtain a copy of four different English language translations of the Bible. Elsewhere, he says that he has not even exercised many of his apostolic rights for support or marriage (1 Cor 9:5). Do you REALLY believe that God intended for only Baptist, Greek-speaking Churchmen to understand the Gospel? But I’m a little confused on the whole by your comment. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. He lives with his wife and sons in Cumberland, Maine. Not very big on commentaries either. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. It’s little wonder why many totalitarian cults, disguising as Christian, use the KJV only and see the KJV as the only legitimate word of God. In 4:5 he says that he is a bondservant of the Corinthians for Jesus’ sake. This is a different nuance than the noun-form of the word, agemon, which means “one who rules, especially in a preeminent position, ruler” as in Mt 2:6, or “head imperial provincial administrator, governor” as in Mt 10:18; 27:2, which refer to secular authorities who wielded undisputed positional power. Paul, though an apostle, had a keen sense that his authority was based not on position or the power to punish but rather on two things: first, the truth of the message which was revealed to him from God; and secondly, the evidence of his godly character. of. It’s always so fascinating. My former pastor often used this verse. It certainly identifies with the spirit and character of Christ. Perhaps some time you would consider addressing Rom.13? "Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward" (II John 8). I work at a Lutheran Seminary. If you want to understand the genitive case in a Greek document…I suggest you confer…not with a Baptist…but with a GREEK! Another example given by Thayer where the word is used as defined, is where Judas and Silas are described as "chief" or "leading" (hegeomai) men, chosen to go to Antioch by the apostles, the elders, and the whole church at Jerusalem (Acts 15:22). nom-si-mas. They do so not in order to act superior to other people or to second-guess English translations, but so they can more accurately teach and preach the Word of God. It’s a delight to read your thoroughly researched, nuanced, consistent-with-the-rest-of-Scripture take on Hebrews 13:17. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! But I am glad that you have found peace in the arms of Lutheranism and liturgical services. What about the word often translated “leaders” in this verse? Leaders are responsible for where they lead others; they are taking on an additional burden. He says that he had to give primary account to God, “In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy” (1 Cor. When Hebrews 13, and the Bible in whole, especially the Epistles, are taken into context, the Bible actually encourages us to test the spirits, teaching, and qualification of church elders and to question and expose them with gentleness and humility. Spiritual leaders in the church who wish to avoid spiritually abusing their followers would do well to emulate him. Hebrews 13:7 is important -- have to consider leaders' way of life and outcome, i.e., not just good administrators. Dear Baptists…PLEASE stop insisting on using the ancient texts to confuse Christian laypeople of God’s simple, plain message of the Gospel! πειθεσθε. I’ve never been a strong advocate of the usage of Greek and Hebrew. θεος. I would like to acknowledge the research you have put into this paticular verse of scripture. Because that is really what Baptists are saying, because the Greek scholars of the Greek Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, and the Methodist Church think that Baptist Greek scholars are all WET on their positions that the Bible does not support infant baptism and that baptism MUST be by immersion! Paul also acknowledges that he owed accountability in his ministry. Hebrews 13:17 - Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. The 2011 NIV does not translate “pethio” to “obey” but rather to ” Have confidence in your leaders.” The NIV that says “obey” there that you are quoting from Steve, is from the 1984 NIV. an orthodox Lutheran blog. It applies to all people in the church to lead and guide others through their teaching and example. But Christians must always ask two questions in regard to spiritual authority: Contextually, we see the principles of truth and trustworthiness just ten verses earlier in Hebrews 13:7: “Remember those who led you, who spoke the Word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.” We see the same concepts in Hebrews 13:9, where the author tells the Hebrews to evaluate teaching and not to be carried away by strange teaching, i.e. But we–he and I–misunderstood the verse. Let’s chalk this one up to friendly fire and wipe the slate clean. Always good to get a referral by a reader who has read a great source on a similar topic. Ravi Zacharias: 200+ Creepy Pictures of Women, Molestation Allegations, Lots of Young Massage Therapists and No One Knew? I’m so sorry that happened to you, Gary. Since I also have studied Greek, I know that Hebrews 13:17 is mistranslated, or could at least be better nuanced so that pastors don’t misuse it to abuse people. Hebrews 13:17, NASB: "Obey your leaders and submit to them—for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account—so that they may do this with joy, not groaning; for this would be unhelpful for you." The Greek word is the present participle ageomai, which means “to be in a supervisory capacity, lead, guide.” The idea is of a person who guides others on a path; a leading person among peers. 4. We have been told, again and again, that Jesus is better. 1. your leaders and submit to them, 2. for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to. A builder has to follow the plans and a leader doesn't have the authority to do as he pleases. b. Is it really possible that ONLY Baptist Greek scholars truly understand ancient Greek, and that the rest of the world’s Greek scholars completely bungle the translation of the New Testament? Thanks for stopping by the blog and leaving a comment. I’m so sorry. And I’m also guessing you posted your comment because I refer to the Greek behind Hebrews 13:17. He defended the truth of his ministry by saying it was based on the revelation of God (Gal 1:11-24). The Greek word for "submissive" is hupeiko, which means to yield, to listen to, or be persuaded by. I don’t know this for sure, because you don’t really address the topic of this post or the purpose of this blog or me as the author. In 10:1 he says that he was meek and gentle in person with the Corinthians. "Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. God promised he would preserve his Word, and the English-speaking people of the world have had the Word of God IN ENGLISH since at least William Tyndale (1300″s??). Concerning the voice, however, it is more probable that the author intended the passive voice, seeing that the middle voice had nearly fallen out of use by the time Koine Greek came to be the prominent form of the Greek language. Thanks Ken. Did God really intend that the only people who could REALLY know what he had to say to mankind…would be ancient Greek-educated Baptist Churchmen?? "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11-13). The point of Hebrews 13:17 is simple. Thanks Steve. Those who lead are under authority themselves. Also, he didn’t want them returning to sacrificial or ceremonial rituals of … But at the same time, it is a heartache to know some you worked so hard to save didn't make it. ( Log Out /  […] Hebrews 13:17: Spiritual Authority’s Most Abused Verse. Thanks for your encouragement, David. noun. However, there have been some that are capable of skillfully using it to dig out certain hidden truths. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. In 6:3-10 he is commended by his character and actions. Obey in those things which they command you to do as salutary: … 11 Under the old system, the high priest brought the blood of animals into the Holy Place as a sacrifice for sin, and the bodies of the animals were burned outside the camp. apo. they should be critically-minded. Hebrews 13:17, NLT: "Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Like Lightening! Hebrews 13:17. Hebrews 13:17-25 Hebrews 13:17 "Obey Your Leaders" Introduction Remember where we are at in Hebrews? Ravi Zacharias Was Not Some Average Sinner in the Church. (I love doing this part. There’s a lot of pain behind it. ( Log Out /  Paul compared his work to that of a builder. English word: Obey- To carry out or fulfill the command, order, or instruction of. As many leaders will admit, it is hard to lead when others refuse to follow. That obedience is the Greek word hupakuou, which means to heed someone in authority. And if I hear another Baptist start talking about how the Greek genitive case proves that the Baptist position is correct, I swear I’m going to puke! 13:17 With v. 17 there is a shift in topic to the issue of the response of the readers to their church leaders. The reading is from St. Paul's Letter to the Hebrews 13:17-21 Brethren, obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Greek word: peitho- … The Greek word translated as "rule" is hegeomia, which means to lead or guide. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Nef/h&r 209 Primer Carriers Huntsman/sidekick 10pk 72930, Small-batch Worcestershire Sauce, Vinca Plant Bunnings, Carlsbad, Ca Police Blotter 2020, Electronic Throttle Control Light Car Won't Start, Peanut Butter And Jelly Egg Rolls, Priya Krishna Dad, Affirmations For Love Relationships, Martin Custom X 000, Oh No Tiktok Song Lyrics, Stihl Oilomatic Saw Chain,